dj posted a link in Kottke’s remaindering links about how the AT-AT’s get deployed on the surface of Hoth prior to the opening battle of Empire Strikes Back (still one of the greatest battle scenes in the world). I would’ve left a comment, but there’s no such option at Kottke’s, so I guess I’ll have to do with little ol’ BB.
Now this drawing isn’t of the Y-85 Titan Dropships (which are quite a bit smaller IIRC), but it’s pretty cool though:
From this quite exhaustive article on The Battle of Hoth… Would you believe I actually read the entire thing? Anyway, while I can live with the transports on the above drawing, the Y-85 Titan Dropships look like they were designed by an intern on his lunch break. Expanded universe design sucks man.
Anyway, I always wondered why those lumbering AT-AT’s had no air support in the shape of Tie’s and Tie Bombers. It’s suicide! And while you’re at it, could you do a little recon and perhaps take out the Ion Canon with something faster than an AT-AT?!
Now personally I would have dropped two star destroyers into a low orbit for some heavy duty fire support for when the shield went down. With the ion canon out of the way, the rebels are (barring an A-Wing suicide pilot willing to kamikaze into the bridge) largely incapable of taking down star destroyers and the fleeing vessels would be easy pickings.
So while Admiral Ozzle may have come out of lightspeed to close to Hoth, but that doesn’t excuse Vader’s absolute lack of tactical prowess.
Vader: “You have failed me for the last time…”
Ozzle: “Yeah, well at least I had a plan you piece of junk! Why don’t you go weep gently in the wind and let the navy do naval maneuvers! Gah.. gAaaahh… can’t… breaaatth…”
Vader: “Captain Piett.
Piett: “Yes my lord.”
Vader:“We shall never speak of this gain. Now stick to my plan!”
Piett: “The plan sir. Yes sir. We shall deploy the lumbering beasts immediately sir. Should we soften up their ranks with a little bombardment then perhaps sir?”
Vader: “Is it in my plan?”
Piett: “No sir.”
Vader: “…”
Piett: “Alright then lord Vader.
Vader: “You are in command now, captain Piett” (cuz Vader doesn’t promote individualists off the cuff).
That’s how I see it anyway.
Haha, nice dialog there. I always wondered myself how the AT-ATs got deployed, but as with most things in Star Wars, there isn’t much actual science fiction behind it – you just assume they got deployed “somehow” and thats it. Another topic that always made me wonder is how they build the Death Star. Imagine the logistics and amound of material required to build a moon sized station.
Didn’t have a clue for years :)
But seriously, I always thought they were just deployed, just like Norante.
See, I’ve always wondered about those same issues: Air support and the orbital bombardment. Did they particularly want to capture someone alive? If not they could’ve just bombarded from orbit, and sent in their forces (with a wing of TIE bombers) and that would’ve been it.
What is even more curious is the fact that Star Destroyers (Imperial) have ion canons which would’ve disabled the shield…
Interesting.
I wonder when they’ll update the movies again, to reflect this.
Probably the 30th anniversary next year when they replace Yoda with digi Yoda anyway?
Kevin- Vader’s priority at this point seemed to be capturing Luke, so he wouldn’t just blow up the installation from orbit. And can ion cannons (in SW science) bypass deflector shields to destroy the shield generator? If so, what’s the point of lugging a giant, essentially useless generator around in the first place?
Wonderful post, though. I love the smell of pseudo-serious SW talk in the morning.
If you haven’t already, I suggest finding a copy of the book, “Tales from the Mos Eisley Cantina”. It’s a very interesting collection of short stories about the people in and around the Cantina on the fateful day in Ep. IV, and how their lives cross. Well written and very interesting stories.
One of the stories is of a Stormtrooper who started out as a AT-AT pilot. During a training mission, Rebel skimmers were hitting him from below, so he lowered the vehicle onto its “knees”, and dropped the head – thus preventing them from getting under him and destroying him. An admiral (forgot the name) who was watching this, saw what he did and asked why. The pilot said something along the lines of “it was a glaring weak spot and it was the only way I could defend my craft.” The admiral congratulates him, and says he’ll pass along the tactical info… but really has him shipped out to the farthest reaches of the galaxy (ie. Tatooine) to hide this flaw. So the guy’s now a Stormtrooper (and is also the one who says, “Look sir – droids!”). A few other things happen, but at the end of the tale, he gets disillusioned with the Empire and thinks he’ll contact the Rebels and pass info to them. He then thinks to himself that “they could probably use the information about the AT-AT’s weakness, and how easily they could be tripped up with some .”
Funny how it all comes together. :)
– John
Kevin- Vader’s priority at this point seemed to be capturing Luke, so he wouldn’t just blow up the installation from orbit. And can ion cannons (in SW science) bypass deflector shields to destroy the shield generator? If so, what’s the point of lugging a giant, essentially useless generator around in the first place?
Wonderful post, though. I love the smell of pseudo-serious SW talk in the morning.
As I recall, from books and games, ion cannons directly bypass all shields and disrupt the electrical/computer systems. It doesn’t directly damage the generator, but it would shut it down, allowing regular blasters to then destroy the generator. (Which is why you see the ISD spiraling a bit out of control as the escape happens.)
I don’t know why ISDs don’t have/didn’t use ion cannons though. I don’t think they were equipped with them, but if not – why not? Y-Wings, for example, have them in the turret section of the ship.
It is my understanding that Tie Fighters and Bombers can’t supply “air” support because they are spacefaring vessels only. It would appear that after the Empire arose, they stopped focusing on terrestrial vehicles and all of their endeavors moved towards giant planet-smashing devices. But, as another commentor mentioned, they still kept some stuff around for the occasional planet-side job – such as kidnapping one’s son.
Or it could be that, you know, they’re plot devices. :-P
No no. Tie Bombers and fighters can definitely fly in atmosphere. I don’t know how much “canon” it is, but in Rogue Leader’s battle of Hoth, after the shield generator is taken down a whole bunch of Ties fly down to try and down the escaping transports. My understanding has always been that the shield prevented ships from crossing its perimeter, but it wasn’t very effective near the ground — hence the AT-ATs and the snow speeders (which would also why they didn’t use X-Wings against them — which would probably have been able to take them down more readily).
But maybe I read too much into things.
very interesting John. I’ll have to get a copy of that book, sounds like a very intersting read!
but as far as AT-AT’s… i never even thought of that…
O.o
So the ion cannon is like a directed electromagnetic pulse that bypasses shields. Now I really feel sorry for the poor schmoes who lug that thing around. If ISDs pack ion cannons, the shield should make absolutely no difference, whether the ISDs decide to pummel the base from orbit or invade with ground troops.
However, I always got the impression that the giant rebel ion cannon was stationed outside the shield, so they wouldn’t have to open it to fire. There’s nothing in the film itself that says this, but the cannon looked so remote in the shot of it firing that I always thought it was a good distance from the base itself.
I also recall the stormtrooper from the Tales of Mos Eisley book every time I watch that scene. Seems delightfully contrived, which is what I love so much about the Star Wars mythos.
If you start questioning the speed and actual practicality of AT-AT’s you’re missing the point dude. It’s all about the dread! Why do you think T-1000 is so scary when he simply walks….ok, he’s also INSANELY scary when he runs…….ahem. My point is that AT-AT’s don’t make sense at all but they’re hella cool!
could someone please post the text from the StarWars.com Questions & Answers section? or maybe an alternate link that’s just good old HTML? for some reason that page isn’t letting me get to any of those questions…
cheers. :)
No no. Tie Bombers and fighters can definitely fly in atmosphere. I don’t know how much “canon” it is, but in Rogue Leader’s battle of Hoth, after the shield generator is taken down a whole bunch of Ties fly down to try and down the escaping transports. My understanding has always been that the shield prevented ships from crossing its perimeter, but it wasn’t very effective near the ground — hence the AT-ATs and the snow speeders (which would also why they didn’t use X-Wings against them — which would probably have been able to take them down more readily).
But maybe I read too much into things.
It’s been a while since I watched it, but at the end of Episode 3, when the empereor returns Vaders burnt body to Coruscant, doesn’t his shuttle have tie escorts ?
I’m currently reading “Vision of the Future”, by Timothy Zhan (recommended). At a certain point, Admrial Pellaeon is driving an AT-AT simulator and he mentions the tactical usefulness of it: scare away and root out insurgents and rebels so they can be captured by ground troops.
Also, the TIE ships can definately fly in atmosphere according to Zhan – they resort to repulsorlifts to compensate the lack of aerodynamics.
Now back to the book. This second series by Zhan is not on the same level as his first one, but it’s quite entertaining, I’d recommend it.
Hang on, Zahn wrote a second SW series? Man, you quit paying attention to a genre for a few years…
Thanks for the heads up, I’ll have to check these out when I go back to work on Monday.